Message in #games · Neon Genesis Phijkchu

taxes May 23, 2021 3:36 PM games

as much as bethesda is shit on

taxes May 23, 2021 3:36 PM games

their gameplay cores are always solid

taxes May 23, 2021 3:36 PM games

they can make a bad story but I've never seen them make a bad "game" per se

Spooky Phijkchu May 23, 2021 3:37 PM games

I think it's hard (impossible?) to provide lore entirely verbally

Spooky Phijkchu May 23, 2021 3:37 PM games

every other RPG has you reading codex entries or whatnot, and try to have them not all be dumped at once

Kampfgruppe Kofewalt May 23, 2021 3:37 PM games

F4 isn't a good game per se either

taxes May 23, 2021 3:37 PM games

I think it has a good gameplay basis

taxes May 23, 2021 3:38 PM games

I would argue too from a design standpoint I think it had the oppurtunity to be a better system and application of the SPECIAL system than fo3 or NV

taxes May 23, 2021 3:38 PM games

skills being arbitrary numbers didnt really make a lot of sense

Spooky Phijkchu May 23, 2021 3:38 PM games

compare F4 against Outer Worlds

Spooky Phijkchu May 23, 2021 3:38 PM games

F4 is clearly more fun to play

Gent May 23, 2021 3:38 PM games

Yes

taxes May 23, 2021 3:38 PM games

They also got the ID guys to work on the gunplay

Gent May 23, 2021 3:39 PM games

Fallout 4 is also less pozzed somehow

taxes May 23, 2021 3:39 PM games

Replying to taxes #tzfi

skills being arbitrary numbers didnt really make a lot of sense

I think a good example is 1 charisma speech 100

taxes May 23, 2021 3:39 PM games

that just shouldnt be possible IMO

taxes May 23, 2021 3:39 PM games

and I think the FO4 "system" is a lot better, but they dont use it, EVER

taxes May 23, 2021 3:39 PM games

the dialogue system hampers that

Spooky Phijkchu May 23, 2021 3:39 PM games

every RPG could use a skill tree overhaul

taxes May 23, 2021 3:39 PM games

if you could use "robotics expert" perk in dialgoue

taxes May 23, 2021 3:40 PM games

and etc.

taxes May 23, 2021 3:40 PM games

it has the basis of a good game

Gent May 23, 2021 3:40 PM games

Fallout 4 just uses a dice roll for charisma checks

taxes May 23, 2021 3:40 PM games

Replying to Gent #gent_.

Fallout 4 just uses a dice roll for charisma checks

I think that's somewhat fine even if I prefer hard stops like in NV

taxes May 23, 2021 3:40 PM games

but it doesnt make sense to have 1 charisma

taxes May 23, 2021 3:40 PM games

and constantly ez pz speech checks

taxes May 23, 2021 3:40 PM games

I think if they made it a perk

Gent May 23, 2021 3:40 PM games

So you just load your save until you pass it

taxes May 23, 2021 3:40 PM games

like 4 levels of increased speech

taxes May 23, 2021 3:40 PM games

thats cheating though

Gent May 23, 2021 3:40 PM games

Yes

Gent May 23, 2021 3:41 PM games

Actually, no, fuck that it's in the game it's not cheating

taxes May 23, 2021 3:41 PM games

okay

taxes May 23, 2021 3:41 PM games

its an exploit

taxes May 23, 2021 3:41 PM games

of mechanics

Gent May 23, 2021 3:41 PM games

One of the most basic mechanics

taxes May 23, 2021 3:41 PM games

its not like speech checks

taxes May 23, 2021 3:41 PM games

do anything

Phijkchu_Pikachu May 23, 2021 3:41 PM games

games with savestates should be built around them

taxes May 23, 2021 3:41 PM games

in fo4

Phijkchu_Pikachu May 23, 2021 3:41 PM games

balance wise

taxes May 23, 2021 3:41 PM games

the're literally

taxes May 23, 2021 3:41 PM games

"increase my payment"

taxes May 23, 2021 3:41 PM games

3 times

taxes May 23, 2021 3:42 PM games

If you had an expanded speech system, a perk based more special reliant system would cater more to an "actual RPG"

Gent May 23, 2021 3:42 PM games

Pretty sure you can intimidate/talk people down in a few quests

taxes May 23, 2021 3:42 PM games

Replying to Gent #gent_.

Pretty sure you can intimidate/talk people down in a few quests

Barely any.

taxes May 23, 2021 3:42 PM games

I just replayed fo4

taxes May 23, 2021 3:42 PM games

there's like

taxes May 23, 2021 3:42 PM games

3 quests?

taxes May 23, 2021 3:42 PM games

where it matters

taxes May 23, 2021 3:43 PM games

and for one of them the speech check doesnt matter technically

Gent May 23, 2021 3:43 PM games

Isn't there one for sparing danse

taxes May 23, 2021 3:43 PM games

yes

taxes May 23, 2021 3:43 PM games

thats one

taxes May 23, 2021 3:43 PM games

the other im thinking of is uh

taxes May 23, 2021 3:43 PM games

the settlement with walls

taxes May 23, 2021 3:43 PM games

so forgettable i forgot its name

taxes May 23, 2021 3:43 PM games

Covenant quest

Gent May 23, 2021 3:43 PM games

Institute evacuation?

taxes May 23, 2021 3:44 PM games

and that i think

taxes May 23, 2021 3:44 PM games

are the only actual "useful" speech checks

taxes May 23, 2021 3:44 PM games

and the covenant one you can literally just ignore

taxes May 23, 2021 3:44 PM games

I mean from a RPG pov

taxes May 23, 2021 3:45 PM games

speech checks should be dice rolls

taxes May 23, 2021 3:45 PM games

but they should seed them

taxes May 23, 2021 3:45 PM games

but even if they didnt want to they could of made it perk reliant and made a perk around convcing people, or just made it require certain charisma levels, like cha7 locked option

taxes May 23, 2021 3:45 PM games

which IMO is a much more modern approach than

taxes May 23, 2021 3:45 PM games

charisma 1 speech 100 😎

taxes May 23, 2021 3:47 PM games

Anyways, Settlement building also isn't bad in CONCEPT, but it's fustrating and they should of let you build into walls and given you a lot more freedom- and shouldnt of shoved it down your throat

taxes May 23, 2021 3:47 PM games

There's a lot of good "gameplay" descisions/features

taxes May 23, 2021 3:47 PM games

but it has no story or actual reason to draw you in past that

taxes May 23, 2021 3:48 PM games

even small things are really cool

taxes May 23, 2021 3:48 PM games

like how you have to collect hacking holotapes for overrides for certain machines

taxes May 23, 2021 3:49 PM games

just knowing about robots via a perk gives you a bit, but if you want an override program with special features you have to find an override holotape

taxes May 23, 2021 3:50 PM games

but then you have shit like, needing to pick up everything, uniques are literally useless compared to legendaries, 100000000 power armors in the wild and idk

Gent May 23, 2021 3:50 PM games

Is there any reason they haven't done more with psykers

taxes May 23, 2021 3:50 PM games

dude fallout1 lmao

Gent May 23, 2021 3:50 PM games

I could see it becoming really lame if overdone

Kampfgruppe Kofewalt May 23, 2021 3:51 PM games

yeah, I'd agree with the "good" ideas/features, often poorly implemented/executed

taxes May 23, 2021 3:51 PM games

there's a ton of "clarivoyants" and magic brain power people

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