Archive details

Discord archive

Neon Genesis Phijkchu

Lifecycle
July 17, 2020 – Present
Snapshot
Through August 30, 2026
Preserved messages
June 19, 2020 – August 30, 2026
Members
712
Messages
1,098,506
Channels
43

Archive navigation

rawb

Jump to date
Pins
PirateMan64 rawb
Replying to Polar_ #polar_
I sensed TF2 discussion, its a class based arena shooter. Its the blueprint for hero shooters, but hero shooter (to me) means you've tied an action/ability to a single button and that defines your class. Battleborn/Paladins/OW the first real Hero Shooters.
I strongly disagree. You push a button on spy to disguise. You push a button on pyro to let out fire. That makes no difference. What would make ow-likes "hero shooters" and not tf2 - if anything - is the fact that in-lore for "hero shooters" there is only one of each "hero". Meanwhile, in tf2 lore, it's implied that there are more than one person of every class
Polar_ rawb
You could originally play uncapped heros in overwatch until they realized it was toxic to have tracer and Lucio 2x every comp. Thats the only reason its like that.
legorhin rawb
numbers probably haven't updated yet (still 114 on patreon), but I noticed that 113 did happen
image.png 26.5 KiB · captured_local
PirateMan64 rawb
Replying to Polar_ #polar_
You could originally play uncapped heros in overwatch until they realized it was toxic to have tracer and Lucio 2x every comp. Thats the only reason its like that.
In lore, it was always assumed there was only one of esch hero though. There weren't 20 widowmaker clones or 58 reinhardts running around. Even bastion eho you could say was the one exception was like the one bastion who joined the good guys iirc
PirateMan64 rawb
Sniping is a thing you do. Pyro has an ability that lets pyro shoot fire, which no other class can do. Spy had an ability to disguise which no other class can do
mtcdood rawb
rawb Patreon dropping to record lows and DSP making less than $100 in a day and losing his mind about it. What a time to be alive.
(Not Spooky) Spark Dragon rawb
Replying to PirateMan64 #zytohn
I could just as well say that overwatch is a class based arena shooter and tf2 is a hero shooter
Don’t let up, TF2 was the first hero shooter. Don’t let overwatch take that title just because they called them “characters,” and not “classes.”
PirateMan64 rawb
If there is a distinction between a "hero shooter" and "class based arena shooter" it'd have to be a lore-based one imo. Am curious to see what polar will claim that his argument hinges on though
PirateMan64 rawb
Also as polar said, overwatch let you pick more than one character on each team until people complained. I don't think people only began viewing it as a "hero shooter" at that point
Polar_ rawb
Replying to PirateMan64 #zytohn
If there is a distinction between a "hero shooter" and "class based arena shooter" it'd have to be a lore-based one imo. Am curious to see what polar will claim that his argument hinges on though
Hi, my argument hinges on the fact that hero shooters are as inspired by MOBAs as they are class based shooters ig. I don't think Lore really has any place in determining if its a hero shooter. All these games came out post-LoL/Dota boom and 10 years after TF2. All these games have passive abilities, Cool down based spells/abilities, and ultimates. They also all have large rosters to suit different styles of play and are 1 character of X per team (like a moba). TF2 is more modular in what a class does, less competitive, and simply doesnt have any of those aspects. I think retroactively calling it a hero shooter is kinda disingenuous, but i can see how youd come to that conclusion since people see it as the basis of future hero shooters. I realistically just think it was the most similar thing that existed in the market previously.
Polar_ rawb
I think its the moba adjacent aspects that are the defining feature. Games like Apex dont have 5CP, KoTH, Payload, etc. Though its still a hero shooter.
PirateMan64 rawb
Replying to Polar_ #polar_
Hi, my argument hinges on the fact that hero shooters are as inspired by MOBAs as they are class based shooters ig. I don't think Lore really has any place in determining if its a hero shooter. All these games came out post-LoL/Dota boom and 10 years after TF2. All these games have passive abilities, Cool down based spells/abilities, and ultimates. They also all have large rosters to suit different styles of play and are 1 character of X per team (like a moba). TF2 is more modular in what a class does, less competitive, and simply doesnt have any of those aspects. I think retroactively calling it a hero shooter is kinda disingenuous, but i can see how youd come to that conclusion since people see it as the basis of future hero shooters. I realistically just think it was the most similar thing that existed in the market previously. (edited)
So you'd say it has a lot to do with the lineage essentially?
Polar_ rawb
I think themes seen in one is in the other, but that doesnt make the previous thing the current thing. I think TF2 is just too different.
PirateMan64 rawb
Even though tf2 has class abilites that are mechanically pretty much the same as the hero abilities, it's the labelling of them as ultimates, the cooldowns, and everything like that which they have taken from mobas that make them hero shooters
Polar_ rawb
Well ultimates are big bombastic abilities. I think the closest argument you could make is like an Uber. Again thats just kind of roughly relating things to each other.
Polar_ rawb
Tf2 also having things like abilities doesnt mean its a hero shooter, it just means some classes have abilities. Its the lack of passives/cooldowns/ultimate moves that build up and swing momentum that differ them.

This archive is read-only — snapshot through August 30, 2026

Channels:
Density:

Jump to date

Local bookmark

Choose a color

This marker stays in this browser. Your choice becomes the default for the next bookmark.