autism

I think the viewer knowing the backstory, enhances the enjoyment of seeing the story in Stay Night

I can agree, that it's got less "twists" or big reveals

or however you want to frame the plot progression

but I don't think that's what makes Fate good

Zero literally lays everything out for you, and just says important details and things that are intentionally hidden from the consumer during the plot of SN, because it ASSUMES you have watched/read SN. The story most definitly does change a lot by the viewer knowing kirirtrtiitsugus relation to illya because it raises questions and causes you to know who/what she is. The story does change when you know rin and sakura are related it changes how you see what happens and makes you confused I'd say. The ""reveals"" or those plot points are integral to the story though, if you remove them you're just fed information that you already know. Like I said, Zero is MADE IN MIND with the idea that you have read SN, so it feeds you these important plot points. Going from SN to Zero allows you to see what all that "mysterious" previous grail war that's teased and prodded before hand is all about. It changes how you see kiritsigu in F/SN, because when you see him in Zero after SN it's almost jarring to see how he was, you see his change in personality. You see Kirei differently and etc.

None of what you said is wrong

I think Stay Night is enhanced by watching Zero first

I fundamentally think the story is better, when you know more about each character going in

You can say that's the viewer "knowing too much"

and we can argue where exactly that line should be

I feel like that might be possible, but I also feel like you have a net gain in enhancement by watching SN first, due to the fact the amount of "mystery" that is prevlanet in both. If you watch SN first you're still confused on many things in zero, and it's still interesting and new information. Whilst if you watch Zero first, you're fed reveals you already know and information you already know, and from an action standpoint, weaker fights.

But with as complete a story as Zero is, I can't say that I think anyone is doing themselves a disservice starting there

I think it depends why you like Stay Night

I wont deny that some stuff is enhanced as I said above

I still believe there's a net gain from SN to zero though

is avalon into shirou shown in Zero?

youd know

i dont remeber

uh

the healing scene is

i think so

I don't know if they show Avalon

hold on

ill find it

iF it shows avalon that's another thing

To be fair, I also feel like the effect is more prominent when you talk about the sources

I feel like you can make a case for the animes like we've been doing

but if this went to sources

>visual novels

100% you can't say zero first

ah nice i skipped right to nude gil

owo

I still don't acknowledge anything in Zero as being a spoiler

And I don't think you can change my mind on that one

I feel like that in general is retarded

becasue they spoil the plot

is the existence of an 8th servant not a spoiler?

what a grail war is?

that too

See that's just it

If the backstories of character are INTEGRAL to the plot

they dont show avalon

your argument is retarded, it's you saying that wathing Stay Night will be different after watching Zero

then something that spoils the information of them

whitch it will be

that's the whole point

its 100% a spoiler

what

If you watch Zero ---> Stay Night

versus just watching Stay Night

it's a different show, you absorb it differently

I don't think anyone would disagree

I think it's better served watching Zero first

but I don't discount that many of the things someone who watched/played Stay Night first

things that they liked

may not apply if you start with Zero

I feel like you're

Wrong

I also feel like, Zero feels larger in scale, well it is, as I said, fights, and etc. You go from something smaller, and increase in scale and complexity

but if you go zero to sn, you move down almost in scale and complexity

to something much more simple

Stay Night feels bigger if you consider the 4th grail war as the lead-up to it

it's the unfinished busness of all these great houses, however many years prior

SN isn't even suppoused to happen though

technically

fighting it out

From the perspective of a consumer though?

You go from this large epic battle royale

to this small shitty events of this singular retard

The difference is, there's a lot more nuance to the 5th war

the 4th is very segmented, every side is separate

the 5th blurs the lines, and that's why the story is so good

in the 4th, the relation between the servants is far more amicable, than that between the Masters

which is flipped on its head in Stay Night

the locked perspective to shirou is a good point

It's almost like

The characters