autism

then zero allows you

to experience it

The reveal of the different houses in Stay Night, isn't as interesting as it is in Zero

what

it also spoils

illya

"spoils"

yes

it literally is an important plot point

it can't spoil future plot points

Isnt she the loli

that's not how timelines work

Yes

Spooky

it spoils illya's relation to shirou

^

Shirou doesn;t know it though

which is what matters

It's still an important plot point

I don't need to self insert into every series I watch

I don't need to be hooked along by big reveals like it's a Marvel movie

That still holds up nothing against literal spoilers to the plot

things that ruin reveals

and etc.

character backstories aren't spoilers

But they're important to the fucking plot

which is why they got their own series

but

they are indeed important, moreso than anything

The backstories and what happens, and what relations there are and what they mean

literally shape the story

you can't just say they aren't spoilers

https://media.tenor.com/images/e03ac29285cec81dab7dbc1fb39dc2ec/tenor.gif

because they literally CHANGE the plot

the story doesn't change by the viewer knowing character relations and understanding the significance of certain plot points and I think it makes Stay Night stronger for not having to rely on pulling "reveals" to front being a great story

it's a great story for so many reasons, it's the tragic conflict between 7 kids, who are unaware (but slowly become aware) of the entire history behind their conflict

7 kids

nice

kids

should have said people

RIP 4 of the Maesters

I think the viewer knowing the backstory, enhances the enjoyment of seeing the story in Stay Night

I can agree, that it's got less "twists" or big reveals

or however you want to frame the plot progression

but I don't think that's what makes Fate good

Zero literally lays everything out for you, and just says important details and things that are intentionally hidden from the consumer during the plot of SN, because it ASSUMES you have watched/read SN. The story most definitly does change a lot by the viewer knowing kirirtrtiitsugus relation to illya because it raises questions and causes you to know who/what she is. The story does change when you know rin and sakura are related it changes how you see what happens and makes you confused I'd say. The ""reveals"" or those plot points are integral to the story though, if you remove them you're just fed information that you already know. Like I said, Zero is MADE IN MIND with the idea that you have read SN, so it feeds you these important plot points. Going from SN to Zero allows you to see what all that "mysterious" previous grail war that's teased and prodded before hand is all about. It changes how you see kiritsigu in F/SN, because when you see him in Zero after SN it's almost jarring to see how he was, you see his change in personality. You see Kirei differently and etc.

None of what you said is wrong

I think Stay Night is enhanced by watching Zero first

I fundamentally think the story is better, when you know more about each character going in

You can say that's the viewer "knowing too much"

and we can argue where exactly that line should be

I feel like that might be possible, but I also feel like you have a net gain in enhancement by watching SN first, due to the fact the amount of "mystery" that is prevlanet in both. If you watch SN first you're still confused on many things in zero, and it's still interesting and new information. Whilst if you watch Zero first, you're fed reveals you already know and information you already know, and from an action standpoint, weaker fights.

But with as complete a story as Zero is, I can't say that I think anyone is doing themselves a disservice starting there

I think it depends why you like Stay Night

I wont deny that some stuff is enhanced as I said above

I still believe there's a net gain from SN to zero though

is avalon into shirou shown in Zero?

youd know

i dont remeber

uh

the healing scene is

i think so

I don't know if they show Avalon

hold on

ill find it

iF it shows avalon that's another thing

To be fair, I also feel like the effect is more prominent when you talk about the sources

I feel like you can make a case for the animes like we've been doing

but if this went to sources

>visual novels

100% you can't say zero first

ah nice i skipped right to nude gil

owo

I still don't acknowledge anything in Zero as being a spoiler

And I don't think you can change my mind on that one

I feel like that in general is retarded

becasue they spoil the plot